News

Minister: French iPod Law "Courageous" and "Forward Thinking"

Saturday, April 29th, 2006 at 1:20 PM - by

Donnedieu de Vabres, the French Minister of Culture responsible for legislation that would require Apple and other manufacturers to make music downloads playable on any and every device has defended the legislation as both "courageous" and "forward thinking," according to an International Herald Tribune report.

The law would require downloads from Apple's iTunes Music Store and other download services to be playable on any computer or other music-playing device, and through other applications than the ones designated by the download service. In other words, iTunes downloads would have to be playable on players from Samsung, Creative, and other competitors, and playable through Windows Media Player, MusicMatch, and other jukebox programs. At the same times, iTunes and iPod would have to support Sony's proprietary format, Windows Media, Real's Rhapsody format, and other DRM schemes.

Despite criticism from Apple and many observers, Mssr. de Vabres said that France will push ahead with the legislation, which was passed earlier this year. In its only official statement regarding the law, Apple said it would result in state-sponsored piracy. U.S. Secretary of Commerce Carlos Gutierrez has publicly supported Apple's protest.

Apple has been credited with bringing legitimacy to the online music download concept, and for reinvigorating the music industry through the success of both the iPod and iTunes. This, in turn, has led to a revitalization of Apple itself, transforming the company from a US$7 billion company to a $13+ billion company.

Analysts and pundits alike have said that tying iPod and iTunes together is a key aspect of the company's ability to maintain its lead in the music download and player business. Requiring Apple to open them up would therefore be a major challenge to Apple's preeminence in these markets, with France dictating business practices to every company involved.

According to Mssr. de Vabres, however, France's efforts to do this shouldn't be interpreted as him being out to get Apple.

"I have absolutely nothing against iTunes, and this is not some payback or protectionism against a foreign company," Mssr. de Vabres told the newspaper. "We are simply defining a fundamental value and principle that I believe will be demanded by Internet users and consumers."

That principal, according to Mssr. de Vabres, is one of interoperability. He told the Herald Tribune that music downloads should be just as portable as DVDs or CDs that can be played on any DVD or CD device.

"I do have an iPod and why not? It has brought immense progress to accessing music on the Internet," Mssr. de Vabres said. He followed that up by stating that "a technology - even one of great quality, success and usefulness - should not control access to a work."

23 comments from the community.

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A guest said: (hide)

Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:13 pm

One presumes that hot on the heels will be a law stopping Sony, French owned Universal and others producing cds that don't operate on non Windows computers. No I thought not somehow.

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A guest said: (hide)

Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:34 pm

So I'm correct to assume that France will also force Microsoft to open its DRM scheme up to non-Windows computers, right??!

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A guest said: (hide)

Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:13 pm

It is a bad law in its entirely - e.g. forbidding personal copies of your own DVD's, but this one issue does support a sound principle, that of interoperability.

The whole landscape should change drastically. Windows only music formats, as pointed out are just as debilitating. That should go as well. But two wrongs don't make a right.

Ah well, should should...

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Bosco said:

member since 03 Jun 2002 with 1002 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:30 pm

In other news, the French solved AIDS by making the HIV virus illegal. The solved cancer by making cancer cells illegal. They solved their endemic economic problems by making kids earn their righs to their jobs until age 26. Oh wait, that last one was actually real, sorry.

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A guest said: (hide)

Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:29 pm

I laud Monsieur de Vabres and the French government for paving a way to interoperatibily between different music services and devices. It's time that the companies stop this nonsense of not allowing their tracks to play on rivals' devices.

Guest wrote:
One presumes that hot on the heels will be a law stopping Sony, French owned Universal and others producing cds that don't operate on non Windows computers. No I thought not somehow.

I think you missed the point. This law was designed to force interoperatibility of downloaded tracks, not CDs. But yes, the music publishers should allow CDs to work on all platforms. But wait, they do! Mon Dieu, didn't you know that? The CDs which, for example, Sony produced (which also generated the whole fiasco) plays perfectly well on non-Windows computers. The only thing that didn't work was the software designed to limit the number of times you can rip that CD. That only worked on Windows. That's the one with the rootkit. Unless you want that to work on your Mac? I know I don't.

Apple saying that France is supporting "state-sponsored piracy" is totally rubbish. How is it that imposing a law that guarantees freedom of choice for consumers can be likened to piracy? The new law doesn't state that Apple has to give away music tracks for free, or that consumers should get the right to download tracks for free. Consumers will still have to pay to get music online, just that now they do not always have to choose Apple's iTunes Music Store anymore. I suppose Carlos Gutierrez supports Apple because it is a multi-billion dollar company and thus contributes quite a fair bit to the government's coffers in the form of taxes. Talk about freedom of choice. Bollocks. Allowing a monopoly to go on imposing its will on consumers doesn't seem quite right, and publically supporting a monopoly in a capitalist market is just plain dodgy. I'd say that if you want to do business in a foreign country, you'd have to play by its laws. Don't go running back to your government crying about unfair competition overseas. C'est la vie.

Vive la France.

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A guest said: (hide)

Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:38 pm

Guest wrote:
I laud Monsieur de Vabres and the French government for paving a way to interoperatibily between different music services and devices. It's time that the companies stop this nonsense of not allowing their tracks to play on rivals' devices.

The French government is not paving the way to interoperability. They are guaranteeing that the French flag will no longer be available on the iTunes Music Store.

Guest wrote:
Apple saying that France is supporting "state-sponsored piracy" is totally rubbish. How is it that imposing a law that guarantees freedom of choice for consumers can be likened to piracy?

Companies create interoperable standards based on market forces. If governments forced interoperability companies would not be able to innovate.

Quote:
The new law doesn't state that Apple has to give away music tracks for free, or that consumers should get the right to download tracks for free. Consumers will still have to pay to get music online, just that now they do not always have to choose Apple's iTunes Music Store anymore. I suppose Carlos Gutierrez supports Apple because it is a multi-billion dollar company and thus contributes quite a fair bit to the government's coffers in the form of taxes. Talk about freedom of choice. Bollocks.

Obviously you don't understand freedom very well. Apple created a product and consumers have the freedom to buy it or not. I think the concept basically ends right there. It is fairly simple. If people stop buying music from the iTunes Music Store or stop buying iPods because they do not interoperate with other devices Apple will probably open up their system. Forcing them to do it would only slow down the innovation and awesome products that they provide.

Quote:
Allowing a monopoly to go on imposing its will on consumers doesn't seem quite right, and publically supporting a monopoly in a capitalist market is just plain dodgy. I'd say that if you want to do business in a foreign country, you'd have to play by its laws. Don't go running back to your government crying about unfair competition overseas. C'est la vie.

Once again, Apple has created no imposition, they have only responded to the demand for their products. Keep punishing success and you will continue on the path of mediocrity.

Yes, if you want do business in a country you should abide by its laws. Too bad that France no longer wants Apple's business or its people to have the freedom to choose what products they want to purchase and enjoy. I think one of the purposes of government is to provide an environment and protect open markets and capitalism where companies like Apple have to freedom to create products that people want and desire.

It seems to me that you have a problem with freedom and success, not Apple.

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Bryan said:

member since 11 Jun 2001 with 7340 posts, TMO Staff, send him a message or view his profile

Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:48 am

Guest wrote:
Allowing a monopoly to go on imposing its will on consumers doesn't seem quite right, and publically supporting a monopoly in a capitalist market is just plain dodgy. I'd say that if you want to do business in a foreign country, you'd have to play by its laws. Don't go running back to your government crying about unfair competition overseas. C'est la vie.

The problem with your argument here is that Apple's market share doesn't constitute a monopoly. Apple's market share in this business is somewhere between 70-80%, depending on who you ask. That percentage is far lower than Microsoft's market share in the OS and productivity markets, but even if it was 90%, there is no limitation in the market.

In other words, there are many, many other download sites for people to buy or rent their music (and this doesn't even touch the far larger CD market). Apple has in no way limited consumer's access to music.

Where's the harm to consumers?

Bryan

Editor

iPO

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A guest said: (hide)

Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:36 am

Music that is downloaded from the iTunes Music Store can actually be played everywhere. The customer just has to follow a few simple steps:

1. Pay for the music and download it from the iTunes Music Store.

2. Burn the downloaded music to recordable CD in the standard audio CD format.

3. Import the music from the CD using any format that your music player supports.

All these steps can easily be performed using the iTunes software, and without that software, you cannot access the iTunes Music Store anyway. You should make a backup of music that you downloaded anyway, so there is no problem with Step 2. iTunes can convert to any format as long as there is a Quicktime codec available; the Quicktime interface is freely available from Apple, so anybody can make any codec Quicktime compatible and therefore iTunes compatible.

There is a very small cost involved in that you have to use a recordable CD. However, that cost is at most two percent of the cost of the music, and it is common sense to make backups anyway, I don't think that Apple actually needs to do anything if this becomes the law in France; maybe they would have to put clear instructions on the iTunes Music Store that explains how to do this.

The record companies might not like this solution, but that is their problem. So maybe the record companies wish to pull out of France.

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JulesLt said:

member since 06 Jul 2005 with 136 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:43 am

To everyone defending Apple on this one, exactly all the same arguments have been used to defend Microsoft's monopoly / dominance. Even that it's been good / unharmful to consumers.

By the same argument, Microsoft have won by creating the best and most innovative products for it's customers. Unfortunately the reality is that IE6 had it's development frozen 4 years ago, with IE7 still not due until possibly next year. Windows also moves to the tectonic update cycle of business, rather than the continual improvements expected by consumers.

In fact, classic economic theory suggests that having a monopoly always works against innovation. Apple may be an exception, because innovation is in it's blood, but you don't start basing consumer law around the behaviour of exceptional companies. You do it on the behaviour of the worst. You act like Apple today may be the MS of tomorrow. You worry that some new, far less cool company might come along and dominate video downloads.

Let's also consider the reality. Most people who have an MP3 player have an iPod. Surveys suggest that the MAJORITY of people who bought a non-iPod MP3 player will buy an iPod next time. The immediate impact of this law is actually about making it possible for other music stores to sell/rent music that could then be transferred legally to iPods. (We know that Fairplay DOES support subscription based DRM even if Apple don't currently use it).

I don't believe it says anything about making the iTunes program itself work with players other than the iPod - only that the files themselves should be transferable. Ironically this can already be done by burning them to CD then reloading, but this would be illegal under the new law, which also states that DRM should be preserved. The overall law is a right-wing law similar to the DMCA, tightening the rights of content-providers to restrict consumers. What's upsetting people is a left-wing amendment to ensure that ALL DRM IS INTEROPERABLE.

This might largely affect Apple now, but we could be praising it in a couple of years, when companies are forced to make films work with Front Row as well as Windows Media Centre PCs.

(It should also be good news for Linux users, who will be able to legally use DVD, WMA and iTunes files. But I forget, Mac users always think that Linux users deserve what they get for using an obscure operating system with a tiny percentage of the market).

I expect that despite what they're saying, just like the major labels complaining about Apple, Apple will stay in the French market and simply add an import/export WMA button to iTunes. Hell, it would even be worth making a WMA based version of iTMS/iPod firmware just for the French market - they are not going to just hand over the French MP3 PLAYER market - and the money is currently still in the hardware.

Equally, consumers take the path of least resistance. That is how IE 'won'. Most iTunes users only installed it because they bought an iPod, not because they went looking for music management software. Just as very few people replace IE, very few people will replace iTunes once they get an iPod. They might be able to buy tunes from elsewhere in WMA and then import them, but they will likely stick with the easiest / cheapest option.

Apple, like Microsoft, only need to make change inconvenient to maintain a dominant position - even against any better competitors that come along.

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A guest said: (hide)

Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:45 am

"So I'm correct to assume that France will also force Microsoft to open its DRM scheme up to non-Windows computers, right??!"

That was my first thought as well. I guess Microsoft will have to get it's Mac developers of Windows Media Player back together (since they have stopped development of the Mac OS version). Now I just might be able to watch stuff that was so bad, that MTV/VH1 wouldn't even broadcast in their "reality" series. Shouldn't matter much longer though, because most web video is gonna be Flash. I wonder how this law will affect Adobe? Hmmm...

Also, since Microsoft and Sony both make video game consoles (that will / do play their respective DRMs), I wonder what affect this will have on the video game industry.

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Engine Joe said:

member since 29 Jun 2004 with 413 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:16 am

Guest wrote:
But yes, the music publishers should allow CDs to work on all platforms. But wait, they do! Mon Dieu, didn't you know that? The CDs which, for example, Sony produced (which also generated the whole fiasco) plays perfectly well on non-Windows computers.

No, no. EMI produced copy-protection CDs don't work on Macs at all. Mon dieu, indeed.

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A guest said: (hide)

Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:50 pm

Stupidity at it's finest. Apple will shutdown iTunes music store and then his iPod will only be usefull for transferring CD's or downloads that he already owns. Apple's technology is Apple's technology and no law or country especially a communist one has the right to take away Apple's technology for which it created period. So I'm afraid this minister will have to find some other way of getting his music online as Apple won't play this game. I'm sure that most in France will have to resort to P2P piracy thanks to this law and since it's only a $50 fine if your caught they won't care anyways. The French government already said they approve of piracy just by the fact that they changed the penalties to a mere $50. I don't see any of the online music stores opening up there content. In fact there content isn't even accessable to purchase because you need IE 6 just to get to there stores. That leaves all Mac users out period. So Apple has no reason to open there DRM technology since there the only store online that you can purchase music from either a Mac or a PC with the same ease of use and applications to download, copy, burn, or now even view video. So screw France!

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A guest said: (hide)

Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:21 pm

"Donnedieu de Vabres, the French Minister of Culture responsible for legislation that would require Apple and other manufacturers to make music downloads playable on any and every device has defended the legislation as both "courageous" and "forward thinking," according to an International Herald Tribune report."

So, this man is calling his own legislation (and by extension, himself) "coourageous" and "forward thinking." This is pompous, presumptuous and preposterous! Oh, and talk about puffed up with pride! Gag.

I do have a hard time understanding how Apple, which merely markets a good brand of music player, and the iTMS, which is merely a good music store tied into it, can be called a "monopoly." Nobody is forced to buy this music, which, I might add, is merely entertainment, and not a necessity to life--music, which can be purchased everywhere, and not only on iTMS (for the most part). The fact that they are tied together is merely part of the marketing. If you don't like Apple's restrictive (as you perceive it) policies, then don't purchase their products. This is how you show Apple what you want. BTW, he so much as admits that his motives are purely selfish, when he admits that he owns an iPod. So, is he not now guilty of the very thing he is accusing Apple of doing--attempting to force his rather feeble influence on Apple? It is rather sickening to read this stuff, and realize that this man is taken seriously! Did somebody _vote_ him into office? Oh, I forgot one more adjective.... petty. So very petty.....

-Jon

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A guest said: (hide)

Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:54 pm

Apple (and Microsoft, Napster, Rhapsody, etc.) may be afraid that this will require them to allow Linux to play DRM music tracks.

I'm surprised that the same people who defend playing encrypted DVD movies on Linux would oppose playing encrypted AAC music on Linux.

Of course, since Linux is open source, users and vendors are free to modify the DRM code to be less restrictive.

This is why open source DVD players allow you to skip the annoying ads which commercial players often force you to watch.

Then again, iTunes already has a mechanism for removing the DRM - just burn a CD (in the past, you could burn a CD image - even more convenient) - so I'm not entirely sure what the problem is...

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A guest said: (hide)

Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:56 pm

I wonder if similar legislation will mandate software interoperability. For example, would France consider legislation that required Apple to allow OS X to run on non-Apple computers? Perhaps some of the Windows XP registration/validation would be declared illegal as well, since it interferes with your ability to run the OS on additional computers which you have purchased.

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Bryan said:

member since 11 Jun 2001 with 7340 posts, TMO Staff, send him a message or view his profile

Mon May 01, 2006 4:37 am

Guest wrote:
To everyone defending Apple on this one, exactly all the same arguments have been used to defend Microsoft's monopoly / dominance. Even that it's been good / unharmful to consumers.

No, in this you are wrong, thus negating most of your point. Microsoft's monopoly power limited consumer access to competing technologies.

To wit, Microsoft used its monopoly power to limit shelf space for Office competitors. Microsoft used its monopoly power in the OS business to put its browser competitor out of business by dumping Explorer (thus cutting Netscape's main revenue source). Microsoft's chokehold on the OS market itself blocked all but Apple's Mac OS and free open-source projects.

Apple's large market share (no monopoly power there, at least not yet) has in no way limited Apple's competition in the music download business. In addition, there are other outlets for music, notably CDs.

You know, I already posted this, though in less detail.

The short version is, however, that comparing Apple's lead in the music download and player businesses to Microsoft's OS and Productivity markets is an...wait for it...apples and oranges comparison.

Bryan

Editor

iPO

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A guest said: (hide)

Mon May 01, 2006 7:58 am

Polaticians by nature are a stupid breed, and French politicians are if anything dumer than most. I personaly hope that Apple closes down its French operations (2%). The French elected the idiots, let them live with it.

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A guest said: (hide)

Mon May 01, 2006 8:03 am

Hmmm....

"Courageous" and "Forward Thinking" aren't necessarily two adjectives one would normally associate with the French nor their way of doing business....

"Vive le difference?"

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Willmark said:

member since 17 Mar 2005 with 73 posts, unranked, send him a message or view his profile

Mon May 01, 2006 8:08 am

"Courageous", rather laughable that anyone from France is using this word.

Wow, At least France is being "courageous" over something for... well... the first time ever…

Seems to me that they should had been "courageous" in 1940, then we wouldn't have had to bail them out of yet another world war. Thereby mitigating 60+ years of consecutive French governments misplaced Jihad against all things American.

As if it was our fault they got their sorry “surrender baret” wearing butts kicked from the German border to the Seine, in like, uh, a week.

In short enough with the unrelenting Anti-American policies since the time of DeGaulle. I’m sure if Canada or anywhere else besides America had invented the iPod, we wouldn’t be even entertaining this discussion.

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A guest said: (hide)

Mon May 01, 2006 9:54 am

Would one describe "Le rГ©gime de Vichy" as "Courageous" and "Forward Thinking?"

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A guest said: (hide)

Mon May 01, 2006 10:39 am

Apple only has 40 percent of the market in France. Its closest competitor only has 30 percent. The 70-80 percent figure only apply to the United States.

The France law is forward thinking and good for consumers. The problem is it is unfair to Apple because it only deals with digital downloads, and it being pushed by Apple's competitors not consumers. As another poster points out, the law should apply to all technology not just digital downloads. For instance, DVD extra features should work on all platforms, CDs should work on all platforms, and software should be allowed to be ported to work on other platforms.

Apple's statement that the law will amount to piracy is fair. Afterall, the DRM schemes will be avialable to anyone who requests them. Accordingly, there will be nothing to protect content anymore. Moreover, hackers will get hold of the DRM secret in France, and be able to use it outside of the County as well. In other words, France is in essence regulating the whole world.

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A guest said: (hide)

Mon May 01, 2006 11:42 am

No, Microsoft stomps on other companies where Apple created a product from scratch using there own ideas and marketing and now that there making some money and gaining marketshare others are just plain jealous. The french law is stupid and backwards ass thinking and a communist law to break normal competition in a free market. Forward thinking through there ass but hardly forward. Apple has provided the only music store that allows PC and Mac users to buy online music and video. The others have slammed the door on all Mac users with there lousy IE6 virus infected interface which no Mac user can use because conveniently Microsoft doesn't make a Mac version.

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A guest said: (hide)

Mon May 01, 2006 12:41 pm

One thing I find interesting is that all the other music services that are out there that don;t work with Macs would have to make their service compatible with Appple computers.

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